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| Posts: 17 |
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#11 Re: crew out of hours Posted 18/02/2012 at 10:42 |
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| In reply to post #9... |
Originally posted by Little minxIf Mixed Fleet were to pick that route up from WW in the future, it would not be a there and back.
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Dont be so sure! BMI operate CAI as a there and back on the airbus and BA are certainly interested in retaining this operational flexibility post integration. We have also seen the company making changes to agreements to allow the DME return on the 74. In the new BA - "because it wasnt done in the past" doesnt translate to future business. |
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#12 Re: crew out of hours Posted 18/02/2012 at 10:57 |
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| In reply to post #11... |
It is possible of course if you alter the departure time and completely change the flight schedule for this flight to be legally operated as a there and back.
However this flight departs at 1700 hours UK local time not 0800, so therefore could only be planned at a 13.15 duty day, not 14.15 as in an 0800 departure.
So as it stands, it would not be rostered as a there and back.
Cairo is a longer flight than Moscow there and back. Yes we already do Moscow as a there and back.
It is unlikely that the pilots would be able to operate this as a there and back but of course they could get off but all I am saying is that it is unlikely to be a there and back as it stands leaving at 1700.
Please all of you feel free to contact BA and let them know that you want them to make this a there and back for you. I am sure they will be only too pleased.
It is not a Mixed Fleet route at the momment but of course that could change and of course BA might take over BMIs route but the scheduling of more than one flight to Cairo actually makes it less likely to be a there and back as some departure times require even less of a duty day.
We shall have to wait and see! |
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| Edited 18/02/2012 @ 11:07 Revision #3 |
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#13 Re: crew out of hours Posted 18/02/2012 at 11:16 |
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| In reply to post #12... |
"Please all of you feel free to contact BA and let them know that you want them to make this a there and back for you. I am sure they will be only too pleased."
Chill out. I was merely pointing out that it is possible to do the flight as a there and back with some flexibility. Of course it would have to change times and for that very reason alone it is unlikely to become a there and back. If BA wanted it as one it would already be one.
It is plain then that the timings suit BA as they stand - so BA and the crew seem happy with the situation. Just because it is possible it does not undermine the very valid reasons that it is not a there and back at the moment, nor is it likely to become a there and back. |
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#14 Re: crew out of hours Posted 18/02/2012 at 11:20 |
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| In reply to post #13... |
Wow. You actually agree with me that it is unlikely
Thanks for clarifying it for us Wibble. |
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| Posts: 17 |
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#15 Re: crew out of hours Posted 18/02/2012 at 13:28 |
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| In reply to post #14... |
Originally posted by Little minxIt is possible of course if you alter the departure time and completely change the flight schedule for this flight to be legally operated as a there and back.
As you say we will see - though the "Please all of you feel free to contact BA and let them know etc" is a very patronising comment as BA are more than capable of commercial planning on their own!!.
Although i would not agree with wibble its unlikely. The whole point of integration with BMI is to increase the slot and schedule flexibility - and generate more efficient rotations and aircraft use - in fact its essential if we are to realise any increase in longhaul flying or new routes soon. It would not be unlikely to see the efficient BMI there and back retained (as this flying will be integrated into the BA schedule) and the BA LH a/c redeployed to more profitable long range routes. Equally as this route is one we compete on - it could be the competition authorities will demand one of the services slots to be given up - who knows which ones. We are already looking closely at what the BMI AOC/sched agreements (incl pilots) brings and thus commercial schedule opportunities.
Whatever happens - post BMI integration, in time there will be significant schedule changes to generate greater efficiency - we are already planning on it! |
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| Edited 18/02/2012 @ 13:35 Revision #1 |
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#16 Re: crew out of hours Posted 18/02/2012 at 14:29 |
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| In reply to post #15... |
What I find very patronising is the way a few of you pilots seem to want to come on this site and almost revel in the idea that Mixed Fleet crew could be worked even harder, than they already are being.
It is a very complex business operating a scheduled airline and many aircraft could do just there and backs but don't.
Take Shorthaul for instance!
Aircraft and crew night stop for many reasons, some to do with the schedule and some to do with the fact that there would not be enough space to have hundreds of aircraft sitting at LHR overnight as it is a highly contested airport and others because the destination is not ideal for night stopping I.e. Moscow.
All I said originally was that I personally thought Cairo would not be a night stop with BA even on Mixed Fleet. I really hope I am right because quite frankly Mixed Fleet crew will struggle with that kind of rostering on top of the rostering they already have. |
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#17 Re: crew out of hours Posted 18/02/2012 at 18:13 |
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| In reply to post #10... |
It would be possable if the slot time was in the max range for FDP my HRG was 5.05 OB and 6.10 IB last week, If they make it a Level 2 you can also do an extra 30 min of duty ,
Im charter and they are vile ive done 5 in the last month and we can do 3 flights before a SSH or SSh and up to 3 after as SSH is not a level 2 from LGW.
I hope they don't do that to you guys put if it possable and it saves money prob will come one day. |
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#18 Re: crew out of hours Posted 18/02/2012 at 19:51 |
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| In reply to post #17... |
I really think some people need to take a reality check.
Yes, for sure, a CAI T&B is feasible for MF. However, do you not think that BA, who have flown to CAI for 60+? years, have not optimised their schedule for max profit from direct flights and connections, etc base on history?
bmi start flying there with an A320? about 2 years ago and pick up the scraps from the plate.
OK, so BA may well now pick the slot that bmi operate. They MAY decide to continue with it, or may not, and convert it to something else. They may decide to put 2 x daily 777 on it. That may mean that CC op early ex LHR, have 12 hours off and then op back and that the late crew do something similar. It will be driven by the total costs, nothing more and nothing less. The CC could be MF or WW.
I think folls need to de-personalise things  |
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| Newbie |
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| Posts: 17 |
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| United Kingdom |
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#19 Re: crew out of hours Posted 22/02/2012 at 00:38 |
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| In reply to post #18... |
I would agree with the de-personalise sentiment - and would like to add also not to take other points so personally. We have a poster above who determines that if something doesnt agree with their OWN personal view of the world its "people revelling in mixed fleet working hard" and "you pilots coming on here etc etc" - which is just plain dramatisation. There is no evidence on this thread of "revelling", and I cant see why anyone posting on here would "wish" mixed fleet to be working harder, I dont! Ask around waterside about where the companies productivity concerns are - it isnt mixed fleet! The point is this isnt about cc and what they personally want out of schedules - its about the business and what the business needs going forward.
To answer the above - the fact that BA has flown a route for 60years does not mean it commercially optimum, far from it. We operate from the most capacity constrained airport in the world, with complex restrictions on slots/avail parking gates/night movements/avail hulls and yes industrial agreements - far more complex than most of our competitors. Because of this we employ a big dept whose sole aim is to try and get the best out of the parts, Network Planning. they juggle all these parameters but certainly do not achieve perfection on all routes, often prioritising key routes at the expense of others. You may have carried them as they travel to the IATA slot conferences where BA does battle with every other carrier to secure our schedules EVERY 6 MTHS! Lots of slot horsetrading goes on - some we win,some we lose. Thats why we have schedule changes, and imperfect schedules (you know too longer flt time than block, long turnrounds in europe etc). Having worked with them on projects we should all be thankful of the essential work they do for the business, getting so much out of LHR. The whole business case of buying a hugely loss making airline BMI - is based around the commercial benefits more slot flexibility gives. Network planning are right now looking at how they can improve our schedules through this process, changing flights around and reducing inefficiencies/better commercial schedule for customers. This is essential if we are to realise any expansion - as it will be the schedule changes that generate the extra avail flying hours from the existing aircraft. Through this BA are looking for an extra 200000 ARFHs above what we (incl bmi) currently do by 2015, through schedule changes. (to equate thats roughly a 25% longhaul flying inc over what we currently do!! very significant listen to our CFOs presentations on the plans). So over time to 2015 there will be significant schedule changes as this process occurs to generate capacity.
I am sorry if this work doesnt fit your own personal wishes but I assure you it is going on right now - as it always has. Plenty of staff are working on detailed areas of the integration project planned for this summer, completion by Oct ;) . Much of the bmi flying will remain, continuing "within" BA and the prime answer as to who will be doing the cc flying in short term ( incl CAI there and back, and other weird integrations they have) .- is bmi cc of course who are coming as part of the deal! (with their agreements that allow it) . Likewise BA are adamant that in buying a loss making BMI they are going to reduce the costs/increase efficiencies, which means its difficult for current BMI routes to be bumped up to legacy contract rates further increasing the losses. They might be "pruned" in favour of our LH expansion or existing services, or further optimised, or even replace our own current competing services. Whatever happens be assured that BA are VERY keen to retain the ability to operate some of their more efficient rotations, and will have to tackle their costs to reduce the losses. |
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| Edited 22/02/2012 @ 00:40 Revision #1 |
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