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#11 Re: A380 - Mixed Fleet Posted 01/04/2012 at 12:12 |
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| In reply to post #9... |
Originally posted by CeilidhLittle Minx, I agree. Nobody knows for sure however if I was to guess I would agree with your idea. Especially as there is speculation that WW fleets will not grow anymore!
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Just to correct you there is growth across all fleets.
MF is to take LAX from WW in August 2012
WW is to take PHX immediatly from MF and SAN from MF in August 2012
In addition WW is to commence immediatly 1 extra JNB each day, 1 extra MIA each day, 1 extra JFK each day and 1 extra HKG 3 times per week along with the B777-300 on the Shanghai.
The crew from EF who wish to move to WW from the list are seeing their requests actioned.
Growth is happening across all fleets and with the BMI purchase EF will see big growth.
Where the BMI crew go to will now be for BA management/ Unions to work on whilst maintaining the rules surrounding takeovers are maintained as this is a legal requirement. With BMI crew on higher salaries than MF there may be a good case for them being integrated into existing fleets but nobody knows at this time and is one to be be sorted Im sure.
BA has said it will fly the Summer BMI schedule. |
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| Edited 01/04/2012 @ 12:34 Revision #1 |
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| "The postings on this site are my own and not my employers position and opinions. I am giving my own time to try and give support to our new entrants, would be recruits and help move things forward" |
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#12 Re: A380 - Mixed Fleet Posted 01/04/2012 at 12:27 |
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| In reply to post #11... |
Ah ok, thanks Baby Jack :-)
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#13 Re: A380 - Mixed Fleet Posted 01/04/2012 at 12:47 |
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| In reply to post #10... |
Well BJ, there is growth in routes but no new crew are joining WW and E/F fleets. We don't know what routes will end up on which fleet and what routes will transfer after June. I expect some 380 work goingto WW will cause some more routes going to M/F.
We don't know which fleet BMI will go to but they currently work to scheme like M/F and they currently are on an hourly pay for allowances, just like M/F, so if I were going t guess, I would definitely bet that they will be kept on these terms, either separately which is definite to begin with or be put on M/F but that is just a guess again!
M/F would benifit from the BMI experience levels, so really it is a no brainier. Just a guess though! |
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#14 Re: A380 - Mixed Fleet Posted 01/04/2012 at 12:51 |
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| In reply to post #13... |
| WW and E/F are definitely not expanding fleets! Routes are moving around but overall Mixed Fleet is getting bigger and WW and E/F are getting smaller. Routes are going back and forth but overall Mixed Fleet are expanding and getting bigger while we get smaller with people taking part time etc. |
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#15 Re: A380 - Mixed Fleet Posted 01/04/2012 at 12:54 |
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| In reply to post #13... |
Originally posted by Little minxWell BJ, there is growth in routes but no new crew are joining WW and E/F fleets. We don't know what routes will end up on which fleet and what routes will transfer after June. I expect some 380 work goingto WW will cause some more routes going to M/F.
We don't know which fleet BMI will go to but they currently work to scheme like M/F and they currently are on an hourly pay for allowances, just like M/F, so if I were going t guess, I would definitely bet that they will be kept on these terms, either separately which is definite to begin with or be put on M/F but that is just a guess again!
M/F would benifit from the BMI experience levels, so really it is a no brainier. Just a guess though!
Who knows ? none of us for sure.
On WW we do have growth however and we have had to second alot of EF CSDs and offer part time CSDs on WW an increase in % they work. Transfers are being actioned for main crew. The route transfers have been announced till August 2012 by the way. LAX to MF August 2012 and SAN to WW in August 2012. |
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| "The postings on this site are my own and not my employers position and opinions. I am giving my own time to try and give support to our new entrants, would be recruits and help move things forward" |
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#16 Re: A380 - Mixed Fleet Posted 01/04/2012 at 13:01 |
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| In reply to post #15... |
Exactly BJ, LAX has more flights per day than SAN, so overall M/F is getting bigger. Just like Chicago has more flights per day than Atlanta, again a swop but overall more work to Mixed Fleet.
WW is losing BKK to Australia, so overall less work balanced out by more Hongkong but overall WW is shrinking and so is E/F.
I can't get my head around, how you can work out that it is expanding if all new crew are going on Mixed Fleet and with so many WW and E/F taking part time!
I think we will just have to agree to disagree, which is fine. |
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#17 Re: A380 - Mixed Fleet Posted 01/04/2012 at 13:14 |
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| In reply to post #16... |
Originally posted by Little minxExactly BJ, LAX has more flights per day than SAN, so overall M/F is getting bigger. Just like Chicago has more flights per day than Atlanta, again a swop but overall more work to Mixed Fleet.
WW is losing BKK to Australia, so overall less work balanced out by more Hongkong but overall WW is shrinking and so is E/F.
I can't get my head around, how you can work out that it is expanding if all new crew are going on Mixed Fleet and with so many WW and E/F taking part time!
I think we will just have to agree to disagree, which is fine.
Its just a route swap. The frequency just increased to LAX last week ie back to 3 per day but the B777 has gone on the route so less crew operating it.
PHX has moved immediatly to WW but instead of nightstops WW are operating it as 4 and 5 day trips so more crew required.
YES we have lost BKK-SYD but BKK has become a 5 day trip so little change in manpower levels.
MIA increases from 2 per day to 3 per day so that is growth
JFK increase 1 per day so that is growth
JNB icreases to 3 per day so that is growth.
PVG Shanghai moves to B777-300 so more crew
Moscow moves to WW 3 times per day, 1 x 747 and 2 x 767 so that is WW growth.
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CSDs are being offered secondments from EF to WW due to growth and several have moved permanently.
CSDs on WW have permanently increased their % working due to growth.
There is growth and this is being spelt out loud and clear at CSD business days.
The training of A380 and the Dreamliner will also create growth due to crew numbers on board along with the training offlines. If the BMI shorthaul work goes to EF then there will be need for CSD promotions on EF possibly according to Cranebank rumours but who knows. It is certainly going to be interesting to see what happens and as you say there is a wealth of experiance at BMI and they have considerable seniority and would fit into any fleet they move into.
This is all good news for all fleets |
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| Edited 01/04/2012 @ 14:10 Revision #1 |
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| "The postings on this site are my own and not my employers position and opinions. I am giving my own time to try and give support to our new entrants, would be recruits and help move things forward" |
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#18 Re: A380 - Mixed Fleet Posted 01/04/2012 at 17:48 |
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| In reply to post #17... |
Look BJ. It's not growth if overall on both fleets, WW and E/F, the head count goes down. How can there possibly be growth on WW if Mixed Fleet are operating routes that used to be operated by WW and thousands of new crew are on M/F.
Yes some E/F crew have moved to WW but overall the head count has still gone down and if you add WW and E/F together, the head count has gone down by thousands, just like the headcount on Mixed Fleet has gone up by thousands.
I think we are just going round and round in circles!
If you think BA will make more crew into CSDs on E/F, you are just living in some kind of alternative universe to me. Part of the dispute was about BA not wanting CSDs on E/F! Have you not noticed all E/F Pursers wearing silver! |
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| Edited 01/04/2012 @ 17:54 Revision #1 |
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#19 Re: A380 - Mixed Fleet Posted 01/04/2012 at 17:58 |
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| In reply to post #18... |
Originally posted by Little minxLook BJ. It's not growth if overall on both fleets, WW and E/F, the head count goes down. How can there possibly be growth on WW if Mixed Fleet are operating routes that used to be operated by WW and thousands of new crew are on M/F.
Yes some E/F crew have moved to WW but overall the head count has still gone down and if you add WW and E/F together, the head count has gone down by thousands, just like the headcount on Mixed Fleet has gone up by thousands.
Well this is not what CSDs are being told I'm afraid Little Minx.
The Head of our Department is very clear that there is growth.
The difference is that this time last year lots of crew had 24 hour on their rosters but now this has changed.
WW and EF are different fleets as is MF as is LGW. There is growth and the head count has not gone down at all as all CSDs know as per meetings. The turnover on WW is miniscule and the numbers accepting part time has levelled out as you can now have a contract whenever the bid window opens.
There is growth.
This topic is however about the A380 and It has been confirmed that it will be operated by both WW and MF. The sheer size and crewing numbers is actually growth in itself as it means we will need crew.
As you say we won't agree on this as CSDs are being told about growth on our CSD our business days and the increased flying programme ie extra MIa, extra JNB, extra HKG, 3 Moscow's prove it. The dispute had nothing at all to do with no more CSDs on EF. The dispute started reference the company changing crewing levels on WW. |
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| Edited 01/04/2012 @ 18:15 Revision #4 |
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| "The postings on this site are my own and not my employers position and opinions. I am giving my own time to try and give support to our new entrants, would be recruits and help move things forward" |
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#20 Re: A380 - Mixed Fleet Posted 01/04/2012 at 18:26 |
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| In reply to post #19... |
Baby Jack, part of the dispute and what BA was trying to bring in was that E/F Pursers could take out a 767 in charge. It was not the bit the union was getting itself completely in a tiz about but it was part of the proposal. They wanted to rename the INCHARGE crew member on E/F and give both CSDs and Pursers on E/F the same name and have it become a new rank.
Maybe because you were not on E/F, you were completely unaware of this.
I can't go on going round and round in circles with you about WW being an expanding fleet. You believe that if you want to. Have you forgotten that they took a crew member off every Longhaul flight! There are less WW crew than two years ago, so it cannot be an expanding fleet. Yes the 380 will come and the dream liner but no new crew will come onto our fleets, as the 380 aircraft need more crew, expansion will happen by more routes moving to Mixed Fleet. Yes WW crew will be on these new aircraft but to accommodate that more routes will move over to Mixed Fleet. Yes some more E/F crew may get offered WW but overall the headcount of crew on the pre M/F contracts will go down. That is the whole point of Mixed Fleet, to save BA money.
Yes BMI could theoretically be put onto WW and E/F but I personally doubt this as they already work to scheme like M/F and they are already on an hourly rate like M/F.
I completely respect that you and I have different opinions about this. |
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